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Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
07-23-2013, 12:23 PM,
#31
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
(07-23-2013, 10:05 AM)Darran Wrote:
(07-23-2013, 09:52 AM)cdg Wrote: Obviously have to wait and see how things shake out in court, which could very easily take years.....My concern is that the band could be put in perpetual limbo as far as recording and touring goes....No doubt they will honor their present touring commitments, but after that is anybody's guess. My advice to the folks that live near upcoming venues is to get to those shows!!

Nah you worry too much. Confused


You're obviously not familiar with the snail paced, incompetent court system in North America....Tongue

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07-23-2013, 12:58 PM,
#32
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
Posting this because the comments section is pretty funny. Smile

AV Club article on Lawsuit
Debbie Lowe
"Thought no one could hear me, I was goin' insane...!"
"Dance, dance, dance across the floor, a lust for life I've never seen before"
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07-23-2013, 01:01 PM,
#33
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
(07-23-2013, 12:58 PM)Debbie Lowe Wrote: Posting this because the comments section is pretty funny. Smile

AV Club article on Lawsuit

Hahahahaha. Big Grin
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07-23-2013, 01:03 PM,
#34
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
(07-23-2013, 01:01 PM)Darran Wrote:
(07-23-2013, 12:58 PM)Debbie Lowe Wrote: Posting this because the comments section is pretty funny. Smile

AV Club article on Lawsuit

Hahahahaha. Big Grin

They just keep coming! Those people over there are quick and are giving me some well needed laughs. Big Grin
Debbie Lowe
"Thought no one could hear me, I was goin' insane...!"
"Dance, dance, dance across the floor, a lust for life I've never seen before"
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07-23-2013, 01:04 PM,
#35
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
(07-23-2013, 12:04 PM)Debbie Lowe Wrote: See I read that the opposite of the way your interpret it. That they ARE trying to stop further use of the name and trademarks such as the CT logo. Confused

That's what I mean with legal documents. People can interpret things differently. I could be wrong and my interpretation could be totally off base. I'm still guessing the legal rights to the name will surely be the first order of business by the courts though.

If they are trying to stop them from touring under the name "Cheap Trick" they will have to deal with this rapidly because the band still have "the right to earn a living" by touring, making music, selling merchandise… As for all the contracts and agreements currently in place this could take a while like I said but the dissolvement of the partnership will come quickly (I think).
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07-23-2013, 01:25 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2013, 01:27 PM by CrystalM.)
#36
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
They could change the name of the band to "Rick Nielsen's Cheap Trick featuring the Incredible Daxx Nielsen on Drums" and most of us would still go to every show possible and buy their new records, tooSmile

The article leaves out one key piece of info - when the case will be filed. It has not yet been filed in Cook County. Did Bun's lawyers slide the suit to the media?

Woke Up with a Summons.Confused

Next dePosition, Please. Tongue

"....and I'm laughin' inside all the while....."
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07-23-2013, 01:36 PM,
#37
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
(07-23-2013, 10:25 AM)ijwthstd Wrote:
(07-22-2013, 01:43 PM)lainey Wrote: I don't get why there would be an agreement for Mr. C to be paid for all live performances he was not in. What a sweet deal! I will not be there working, traveling, playing, etc. but I will be paid for it as if I was there. Huh

More common than you might think.

He is not an employee but a 1/4 member of Cheap Trick Incorporated and they are making money selling a product based on legacy that he helped build. Sounds like there is an agreement in place stating he is entitled to receive a share of the income.

Steve Perry of Journey, Ronnie Van Zandt and Allen Collin of Lynyrd Skynyrd (their heirs as of 2000-ish were also part owners) are examples of non-performing members still receiving tour income.
I didn't realize this is done often in the music business. Thanks for the explanation.

If I never loved, I never would have cried.
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07-24-2013, 12:24 PM,
#38
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
(07-23-2013, 01:25 PM)CrystalM Wrote: The article leaves out one key piece of info - when the case will be filed. It has not yet been filed in Cook County. Did Bun's lawyers slide the suit to the media?

That bit about Cook County is rather misleading. The suit was filed July 19 in US District Court (Northern Illinois), presumably because the parties all reside in different states.

Back to lurking. Smile
"The band was singin' and playin' a tune...love comes a tumblin' down"
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07-24-2013, 01:11 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2013, 01:18 PM by CrystalM.)
#39
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
Bun's complaint was filed Friday in federal court because it centers on trademark violation and "because a substantial part of the events and omissions giving rise to the claims set forth in this Complaint occurred, and a substantial part of the property that is the subject of the action is located, in the Northern District of Illinois," according to the complaint.

Bun seeks at least $600,000 while David Frey is asking for $900,000 minimum. Frey, of Virginia, former Blues Traveler manager, claims he increased the band's average gig take by 10 times after being hired in 1997 before being canned in 2010. Bun claims to be a 25 percent controlling owner of corporations named Cheap Trick, Inc.; Carlos, Nielsen, Petersson & Zander, LLC; Cheap Trick Unlimited, Inc.; Cheap Trick Touring, Inc.; Cheap Trick Merchandising, Inc.; and ZPN&C, Inc., each of which is listed as a plaintiff and each of which requires all four band members to vote unanimously before making band decisions, according to the complaint.

Allegations in the 42-page complaint include several counts of breach of contract, breach of fiduciary responsibility, false advertising, unfair competition, deceptive trade practices, etc.

The plaintiffs demand a jury trial, but first the defendants will file an "answer" to the complaint. Then comes the "discovery" phase of the process, when depositions are given and records turned over to the lawyers. Usually these cases are settled through mediation rather than public trial after the discovery process turns up all the facts.

Meanwhile, however, Judge Dow will likely hear the plaintiffs demand for an injunction - a court order - to:

• declare Frey is still the manager (entitled to pay equal to at least that of the lowest-paid band member since his 'purported firing') and that Bun is still the drummer/co-owner of the band,
• prevent the defendants "from using the CHEAP TRICK® Marks absent all four Band Members’ express, written consent,"
• bar "any other conduct which causes, or is likely to cause confusion, mistake, deception, or misunderstanding as to the source, affiliation, connection or association of Defendants’ new works and/or recordings and/or services (that exclude Carlos) with the Band,"
• and require "the destruction of all advertisements, promotional materials, packaging, products or any other materials bearing the CHEAP TRICK® Marks, or any other use of the Band’s name in connection with any new works and/or recording that exclude Carlos."
• etc.

No, I am not a lawyer. But I was a court/crime reporter for a daily newspaper for 15 years with a federal court on my beat - so I know a little about translating court-ese to EnglishSmile

Let's hope it gets resolved soon, so the album can be released and the black cloud can be lifted from the best fuckin' rock band in America, inc.



"....and I'm laughin' inside all the while....."
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07-24-2013, 01:37 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2013, 01:40 PM by Debbie Lowe.)
#40
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
I volunteer to be on the jury! Big Grin

Seriously though, it's all that stuff that you mentioned there Crystal that have me bummed. I've also worked in the legal industry and am almost, but not quite, a Certified Paralegal. (If I would just finish up 6 more credit hours..)

When you first posted the article a couple days ago, I immediately read into it all the things you mentioned. Sad

I have some suspicions on how this may end up shaking out but I don't want to post or speculate anything. Just hoping we can that we can have the best outcome possible for all parties involved. Confused
Debbie Lowe
"Thought no one could hear me, I was goin' insane...!"
"Dance, dance, dance across the floor, a lust for life I've never seen before"
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07-24-2013, 01:59 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2013, 02:02 PM by clp.)
#41
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
Found this little interesting tidbit today about the Great White name battle.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/great-whi...e-lawsuit/
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07-24-2013, 02:09 PM,
#42
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
(07-24-2013, 01:59 PM)clp Wrote: Found this little interesting tidbit today about the Great White name battle.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/great-whi...e-lawsuit/

I don't see Bun E. Carlos' Cheap Trick being a hit myself. Big Grin
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07-24-2013, 02:16 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2013, 02:20 PM by clp.)
#43
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
Rolls off the tounge doesn't it.

He has shown no intention of carrying on with the name, it's all just going to come down to money.

If for some reason the judge is a moron, which I've had the case to deal with myself, then I'll look forward to the new "Sick Man of Europe" CD.
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07-24-2013, 02:43 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2013, 03:11 PM by ch67.)
#44
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
(07-22-2013, 03:00 PM)FRED GARVINS WIFE Wrote: if the guy can't drum for 2 hours or he refussed to play certain songs, then he should take a backseat and let ct move on without him. don't try and hold the band up. he's now stepping on the fans as well as the band.

Sorry, but Bun E. isn't doing anything any of you wouldn't do. He has the same deal so many other artists have gotten when they stopped performing with the bands they were in (Peter Criss of KISS got the same deal in the late 70s when asked to leave the group - he left the group, but retained 100% of his one-quarter ownership in the business end of KISS, and any and all drummers after him have been on salary, same with guitarists replacing Ace). But Bun E. was still 1/4 of Cheap Trick, he (legally) was supposed to record with them, he was supposed to be paid for being a business partner. Bun E. put 30 years of equity into that company, no reason he should just "give up" his part of the business. So if you were not getting paid the money ALL PARTIES HAD TO AGREE TO, wouldn't you try to recoup the money, protect your income? Of course you would.

One cool thing from that article is it looks like they quoted a former board member who did an interview with Bun E. In fact, it looks like a lot of info came from his interview, the one direct quote from Bun was definately from that person's interview. (He got kicked off the boards here for doing that interview, of course).

The fact that Robin, Tom & Rick have not responded has nothing to do with having or not having "class." It has everything to do with preparing a defense, not "keeping things private." Privacy is a hard thing to keep hold of when you are being sued, trust me, I've seen it and experienced it. (I was sued by an ambulance chaser and a crazy woman who plowed into my car when I was 17. Technically, I was at fault, but the ticket that I got for my participation in the accident was thrown out).

My Dad was also sued in that incident (he owned the car I was driving, which was a Chevy Chevette, not a real nice car or anything) but we lost privacy (in a small town, this was big news and was written about in the paper) but basically won the case. So I know a little about how this works from personal experience. Regardless, you will hear Robin, Rick & tom say something about all this, it will just be a prpared legal document, just like BunE. and Frey did. (I am still surprised they hosed Dave Frey, I really thought they loved that guy to death. I think he is kind of a tool). Again, CLASS has nothing to do with this, it is simply a smart move not to start running your mouth when you are being sued.

I think it is easy to see this with blinders on, without looking at the whole picture (like I said, Rick, Tom and Robin aren't going to speak because they are the ones being sued - they'll prepare a defense and that will be that. You'll hear from them then. I am repeating myself again, but I am seriously shocked they fired Frey, I thought they were all buds and all that. He stepped up to the plate and really took a leadership role when the stage collapse happened, so I was really surprised to see him get axed. But they still have to pay him money he loaned them, manager or not. No one is going to put $300k in another person's hands without some sort of repayment agreement. I don't understand why he even loaned it but still, he should get his money back.

While many have been quick to jump to scream "Rah, Rah! Rah!" behind Daxx, I can now say I have seen him live and I think he's got a long way to go to be half the drummer Bun E. is. He didn't hit very hard, he rushed some of his fills and he screwed up quite a bit for a drummer who has been on the road for such a long time with this band. There are lots of better drummers out there that could be doing a much better job than Daxx (Bun E., for one). The band is not being energized by Daxx, they are having fun playing different songs, all songs I have seen/heard Bun E. play, Bun E. is in perfect health when it comes to his back, he hasn't (that I know of) refused to play over 2 hours (when I saw them with Daxx, they played less than 2 hours - is that Daxx's fault?)

I think the time to let this play out without too much speculation on our part has arrived, lets just see how this works out. I think many of us might be a bit surprised to learn what we do about some of our heroes.
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07-24-2013, 02:59 PM,
#45
RE: Carlos v. Nielsen, Peterson and Zander
The summonses were issued yesterday to Rick, Robin and Tom. After they have been served, the defendants have 21 days to file a response with the court answering to each of the 177 allegations contained within the 14-count complaint. Some of the background facts, such as: "6. Robin Zander (“Zander”), is a resident of the State of Florida and a member of the Band," won't be disputed. Others, the defendants will rebutt, such as "77. .....Defendants are making personal uses of the CHEAP TRICK® Marks without the authorization of CTU and ZPN&C to promote the upcoming studio album which the three Defendants recently recorded and intend to release without Carlos’s participation or consent."

Rick, Tom and Robin (their lawyers) will probably also add their own affirmative defenses and also file a cross-complaint, making both "sides" both defendants and plaintiffs.

The plaintiff always gets the initial PR boost because their story comes out before the defendants have even read the complaint (the lawsuit). However, I would hope the band is working on a press release right now - at the very least, assuring fans/venues that the scheduled shows will go on, etc. This story will 'have legs' in the press and it's good to spin it for the benefit of the band and fans!

"....and I'm laughin' inside all the while....."
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