Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Heart On A Line - question for total geeks like myself
06-29-2016, 11:23 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-29-2016, 11:37 PM by freeresonance.)
#1
Heart On A Line - question for total geeks like myself
this song is a grower, for me. i did not much care for it when house of lords did it on one of their albums back in '85, and the version cheap trick demoed during their red ant years didn't catch my attention either. i didn't dislike it, but it didn't grab me either.

i don't know if it is the recording or the performances, but i am digging it the new version that kicks off BZCH. it is pretty much verbatim the same arrangement and what not as the version house of lords covered back in the day, so...who knows?

oddly, when house of lords released it, the song was credited solely to rick nielsen. as i stated, nothing has changed - not even the lyric or arrangement - yet now it is credited to the entire band, as well as greg guifria and julian raymond. just as "do you remember?" is credited to the entire band, but was written before daxx was even born. i could be wrong, but i don't believe anything has changed in that song either.

now, i think we all know that the songwriting credits have not been accurate since the CT 97 record when they started crediting all of the songs to rick, robin, and tom. call me a geek, but i miss the days when the songwriting credits on their albums were arguably accurate. i thought it was informative and insightful to know who contributed to any given song. i also feel that it added to their appeal.

some might argue that they are doing this so that one guy does not wind up earning significantly more in royalties that the others (thus, riding around in a ferrari while the others are riding around in some rattle trap made by chrysler), but this argument does not hold water. i have always felt that the cover of the latest was a gag on the fact that rick received significantly more than the other guys in songwriting royalties because he wrote "the big three" - IWYTWM, surrender, and dream police - as well as many of their other hits such as IYWML, she's tight, everything works, voices, ghost town, and the majority of the album tracks that the band has built its reputation on and make up the majority of their live sets to this very day.

as a published songwriter (ASCAP) myself, i know for certain that one can set up the distribution of songwriting royalties however one chooses, regardless of what the songwriting credits say on the liner notes. for example, even though the liner notes state that rick wrote the majority of the material on the first few cheap trick albums, he could choose to split the songwriting royalties for each individual song however he chooses. he could choose to give a percentage to his ex-girlfriend from high school if he chooses. some argue that this approach helps bands avoid conflict in the event that they have major success with a song credited solely to a specific member. it also helps bands avoid the problem of each member demanding equal songwriting contribution on any given release in order to secure their share of royalties. this model would exponentially increase the chance of substandard or "filler" material being included on any given release because the drummer demanded that his/her songs be on the record in order to put the kids through private school.

does anyone know why cheap trick decided to go with the collective approach to the songwriting credits in the liner notes?

addenda:

i often wonder how common it is for there to be mistakes made on songwriting credits. in cheap trick's case, take "can't hold on" as an example - the songs has always been credited to rick, but on the complete budokan release, rick introduces it as a song "that robin wrote."

another example is "3D" from next position please. the liner notes on the sleeve state that it was written solely by rick, but the credit on the label goes to both rick and bun e (this holds true when it was featured as the b-side for the dutch single for the song "next position please" as well). i asked bun e about his contribution to the song - did he write a guitar riff for it? a melody? a lyric? nope - he stated that he helped arrange it. arrangements are generally not considered part of the composition because nothing is being composed. however, an arrangement can and will make or break a song. oddly, bun e is also credited with the arrangement for the song "dream police," but was not given songwriting credit. why one and not the other?

there is also peter comita's claim that he co-wrote "i can't take it," which is the one and only song credited solely to robin on any cheap trick album. could pete's memory be somewhat frazzled from too many long nights in the interim? is he possibly thinking of the song "reach out (and take it)" that he co-wrote?

last but not least, bun e is included on the songwriting credits for all of the original tunes on the latest. however, he was not credited as such on CT97, special one, or rockford. are we really to believe that he had any more to do with the songwriting credits on that album than any of the other albums i have mentioned?
Reply
06-29-2016, 11:54 PM,
#2
RE: Heart On A Line - question for total geeks like myself
(06-29-2016, 11:23 PM)freeresonance Wrote: some might argue that they are doing this so that one guy does not wind up earning significantly more in royalties that the others (thus, riding around in a ferrari while the others are riding around in some rattle trap made by chrysler), but this argument does not hold water. i have always felt that the cover of the latest was a gag on the fact that rick received significantly more than the other guys in songwriting royalties because he wrote "the big three" - IWYTWM, surrender, and dream police - as well as many of their other hits such as IYWML, she's tight, everything works, voices, ghost town, and the majority of the album tracks that the band has built its reputation on and make up the majority of their live sets to this very day.

as a published songwriter (ASCAP) myself, i know for certain that one can set up the distribution of songwriting royalties however one chooses, regardless of what the songwriting credits say on the liner notes. for example, even though the liner notes state that rick wrote the majority of the material on the first few cheap trick albums, he could choose to split the songwriting royalties for each individual song however he chooses. he could choose to give a percentage to his ex-girlfriend from high school if he chooses. some argue that this approach helps bands avoid conflict in the event that they have major success with a song credited solely to a specific member. it also helps bands avoid the problem of each member demanding equal songwriting contribution on any given release in order to secure their share of royalties. this model would exponentially increase the chance of substandard or "filler" material being included on any given release because the drummer demanded that his/her songs be on the record in order to put the kids through private school.

does anyone know why cheap trick decided to go with the collective approach to the songwriting credits in the liner notes?

addenda:

i often wonder how common it is for there to be mistakes made on songwriting credits. in cheap trick's case, take "can't hold on" as an example - the songs has always been credited to rick, but on the complete budokan release, rick introduces it as a song "that robin wrote."

 I'm glad you mentioned that how a song is credited on an album does not necessarily indicate how the publishing revenue is split.
 U2 is a group that I am aware of who split the publishing four ways in order to avoid the issues you bring up of lesser writers in a group demanding songs on an album to get more revenue. I believe the legal precedent for this is Criss vs Simmons, Stanley, Frehley, Ezrin etc, etc, etc.... 

And the "Can't Hold On" credit is something that I have just recently come across. Nielsen gets sole credit for it everywhere that I look but he does say that Robin wrote it as you mentioned.
Reply
07-02-2016, 11:59 AM,
#3
RE: Heart On A Line - question for total geeks like myself
(06-29-2016, 11:54 PM)Beauvoir Wrote:
(06-29-2016, 11:23 PM)freeresonance Wrote: some might argue that they are doing this so that one guy does not wind up earning significantly more in royalties that the others (thus, riding around in a ferrari while the others are riding around in some rattle trap made by chrysler), but this argument does not hold water. i have always felt that the cover of the latest was a gag on the fact that rick received significantly more than the other guys in songwriting royalties because he wrote "the big three" - IWYTWM, surrender, and dream police - as well as many of their other hits such as IYWML, she's tight, everything works, voices, ghost town, and the majority of the album tracks that the band has built its reputation on and make up the majority of their live sets to this very day.

as a published songwriter (ASCAP) myself, i know for certain that one can set up the distribution of songwriting royalties however one chooses, regardless of what the songwriting credits say on the liner notes. for example, even though the liner notes state that rick wrote the majority of the material on the first few cheap trick albums, he could choose to split the songwriting royalties for each individual song however he chooses. he could choose to give a percentage to his ex-girlfriend from high school if he chooses. some argue that this approach helps bands avoid conflict in the event that they have major success with a song credited solely to a specific member. it also helps bands avoid the problem of each member demanding equal songwriting contribution on any given release in order to secure their share of royalties. this model would exponentially increase the chance of substandard or "filler" material being included on any given release because the drummer demanded that his/her songs be on the record in order to put the kids through private school.

does anyone know why cheap trick decided to go with the collective approach to the songwriting credits in the liner notes?

addenda:

i often wonder how common it is for there to be mistakes made on songwriting credits. in cheap trick's case, take "can't hold on" as an example - the songs has always been credited to rick, but on the complete budokan release, rick introduces it as a song "that robin wrote."

 I'm glad you mentioned that how a song is credited on an album does not necessarily indicate how the publishing revenue is split.
 U2 is a group that I am aware of who split the publishing four ways in order to avoid the issues you bring up of lesser writers in a group demanding songs on an album to get more revenue. I believe the legal precedent for this is Criss vs Simmons, Stanley, Frehley, Ezrin etc, etc, etc.... 

And the "Can't Hold On" credit is something that I have just recently come across. Nielsen gets sole credit for it everywhere that I look but he does say that Robin wrote it as you mentioned.

I'm guessing the publishing for "The Latest" included Bun for the sole purpose of earning him some extra revenue. I wouldn't doubt if the band did it in an effort to appease 
a conflict over money that had arisen previously.

I also notice that "Take Me I'm Yours" is credited to Rick and Robin on the original "Found All the Parts" 10" (is it still that way?) but as far back as 1975 Rick always introduced it as a song Robin wrote.
Reply
11-07-2016, 03:23 PM,
#4
RE: Heart On A Line - question for total geeks like myself
I have assumed for awhile now that Pete was referring to "Reach Out (And Take It)" as you suggest.
It's the only theory that makes sense.

 The issue of the writing credits on the new album is certainly interesting to me and I am making note of it, just wish I knew more about why it was done.
I have heard of producers demanding song-writing credits on an album as part of the initial contract therefore ensuring a bigger cut for them.
Reply
11-08-2016, 11:11 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-08-2016, 01:40 PM by curiouser.)
#5
RE: Heart On A Line - question for total geeks like myself



I think the song is not very good whoever does it. The House of Lords version is bad and over the top.
And with all the loves and hates and passions just like mine...
Reply
11-08-2016, 11:39 AM,
#6
RE: Heart On A Line - question for total geeks like myself
I'm not debating the value of the song (I don't think the OP was either), just curious about how the song-writing credit for it has changed through the years.
Reply
11-08-2016, 12:57 PM,
#7
RE: Heart On A Line - question for total geeks like myself
(11-08-2016, 11:39 AM)Beauvoir Wrote: I'm not debating the value of the song (I don't think the OP was either), just curious about how the song-writing credit for it has changed through the years.

good tune, great guitars and sound
Reply
11-08-2016, 01:40 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-08-2016, 01:46 PM by curiouser.)
#8
RE: Heart On A Line - question for total geeks like myself
It veers dangerously close to the abject retardedness of Sammy Hagar, Loverboy, Motley Crue, Bullet Boyz, Extreme, etc. In fact, the band was considering it for 'Woke Up With a Monster', which is just as well considering how that album stunk to high heaven.
And with all the loves and hates and passions just like mine...
Reply
11-08-2016, 04:17 PM,
#9
RE: Heart On A Line - question for total geeks like myself
(11-08-2016, 01:40 PM)curiouser Wrote: It veers dangerously close to the abject retardedness of Sammy Hagar, Loverboy, Motley Crue, Bullet Boyz, Extreme, etc. In fact, the band was considering it for 'Woke Up With a Monster', which is just as well considering how that album stunk to high heaven.

lol...I liked that album. Mind you, I like them all really.  Tongue
Reply
11-11-2016, 09:29 AM,
#10
RE: Heart On A Line - question for total geeks like myself
On the songwriting credits: one thing I noticed is the order of each member in the credits. I'm wondering if that's a way to recognize who brought the initial idea in - who started the song - since we know from interviews and such that the band isn't collaborating in one place/time in writing. In other words, Rick, Robin & Tom aren't in one room together with guitars starting from scratch.

Several years ago there was an interview with Bun E. in some small punk rock online magazine - where he said something along the lines of, "...the songwriters haven't written anything new in 25 years..." Considering the reliance on older demos and such made new, I found that curious. If my theory in the first paragraph holds true, I wonder who's name is listed first and second the most in the credits...

http://www.weaponofselfdistraction.com


www.weaponofselfdistraction.com | "Everything works if you let it...if you let it in your heart..."
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)